Only when you know pain will you know GOD?

[kyupol]

Things have been very stressful for me over the past few days. Its the kind that would put tears on your eyes and then you stop crying later on... but then after awhile or when something out of the blue reminds you of that stressful event, you suddenly start getting upset and crying again.

I cry because I feel powerless and there's nothing I can do about it.

And then I suddenly remember a debate I had a long time ago with a Christian on another forum. He basically told me (the jist of a 10 paragraph long incoherent rambling with the word "God" in almost every sentence as well as random bible verses that arent even related):

"Once God has knocked you down HARD enough, you will realize that there is a GOD. And this GOD is a BEING and NOT an energy like what you claim God is. You havent:
- had your father taken from you at age 13... therefore making me grow up into a man at age 13
- been raped
- been bulled throughout childhood
- felt like you have nowhere to run
- had a gun pulled on you
- been shot multiple times
- been beaten up by cops
- been satanically ritually abused
- had demons (LITERALLY) attack you
- had your girlfriend leave you right at your lowest point in life
- etc. etc. etc.
But you get the point. He's basically told me that only when you know pain will you know that there is a God.

I know what pain is. But I admit I havent been through all that he said and he's got more "battle scars" and that is what led him to believe there is a God and turn to the Bible and accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and his Savior.

I dunno what to say but at this point I really feel like asking God for help. But at the same time I am reluctant because I have this deeply ingrained belief that only the weak-minded look to a "God" for help. And I sure as hell have seen alot of people who seem to have been abandoned by "God".

So anyway... do you agree with this statement:
Only when you know pain, will you know God.

[ninjies]

i believe that if you're a religious person, your faith should lie in the possibility of an afterlife as opposed to the presence of a physical god in this life. the reason being that if you believe that there is an afterlife, we'll just say heaven, then you have something to look forward to, something that's better than this world. if you're waiting for god to talk to you in your sleep or send you a miracle or fix your problems, you're going to be waiting a reaaaallly long time.
i don't at all think that only weak-minded people turn to a god in their dark times. i think weak-minded people are those that blame their problems on god or fate, or expect god to fix everything. there is nothing wrong with having faith in a god, if it gives you comfort, but you have to remember that YOU have the power to make yourself happy. just like YOU have the power to choose to have a faith.
i'm an agnostic, so it's my belief that if you ask god for help, you won't get an answer. but perhaps your faith can give you the strength to find your own answer.

as for "only when you know pain, will you know god", no. i've known plenty of christians that have very, very firm beliefs, and nothing terrible as ever really happened to them. likewise, i've known plenty of people who have gone through terrible, terrible things in their lifetime and are atheists.
by the way, if you think your pain is "inferior" to this guy's pain, you should find some comfort in knowing you can tick off "satanically ritually abused" and "attacked by demons" because those are both incredibly unlikely. actually, most of them are pretty unlikely. i think he's hyperbolic.

[snugglebunny]

- had demons (LITERALLY) attack you

No that is called, knowing insanity.

I dunno what to say but at this point I really feel like asking God for help. But at the same time I am reluctant because I have this deeply ingrained belief that only the weak-minded look to a "God" for help. And I sure as hell have seen alot of people who seem to have been abandoned by "God".

It's not my place (or anybody else's for that matter) to tell you whether or not God exists. But you should do whatever you feel will help you out. If you think looking to religion will help you, then go for it. It can't really un-help you.

[blankd]

No. I will have to dip into some theological stuff, but please read it to the end.

I know what pain is. But I admit I havent been through all that he said and he's got more "battle scars" and that is what led him to believe there is a God and turn to the Bible and accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and his Savior.

By definition he fails as a Christian, he is to help his fellow man not push his personal ideas on others. To be Christian is to forgive, have compassion for and essentially love your fellows, regardless of who or what they are or what they have done to you.

There are few "real" Christians in the world, but there are those who try and those who are blinded by what they try to achieve. I am not religious but I feel many misinterpret the Bible and its message. What I pull from it aside from all the imagery within it, is that to "accept" Jesus means you believe the idea of someone who is that kind and caring is possible. To accept that "he" is your Savior is to believe that at some point everyone will be as kind and caring as this figure and that it will save humanity. To be Christian is to to try and achieve the same kindness he has and pass it on to others. It is difficult but the point of his story is that the pain of humanity nor what is personally inflicted on you should sway your heart. This idea is valuable because of how "impossible" it is to achieve.

Still he has not found "God" if pain is what inspired his tirade at you, he has learned nothing and he is no Christian. Ignore him and his spite.

I dunno what to say but at this point I really feel like asking God for help. But at the same time I am reluctant because I have this deeply ingrained belief that only the weak-minded look to a "God" for help. And I sure as hell have seen alot of people who seem to have been abandoned by "God".

Those that believe that all their problems are caused and will be solved by someone else ARE weak-minded.

To ask for advice or guidance is another matter, it means you want to take responsibility and make yourself happier/better. There are many different "God"s to "ask" for help but I know that regardless of creed, the people who feel they have been abandoned by "God" have only really abandoned themselves. So do not let them deter your personal beliefs and your own decisions on where to look for guidance.

Regardless, what would you like to ask of "God" that you feel you cannot ask of your fellows? I am definitely no God, but even though you are feeling distraught, do take the time to "cry it out" as it were. Different people deal with pain in different ways, it is natural to feel it but unhealthy to dwell on it. I would recommend you focus on the wealth of other offerings life has to offer you that will not cause you pain, it will help you heal.

I hope you feel better soon.

[irMax]

God uses the weak.

He used Moses after Moses killed a dude in Egypt.

That says alot.

[Cookieluv246]

There are two types of ways to technically die.
Physically, and Mentally.

Some people when they are at their weakest point, are not necessarily suicidal, but just can't see life going on the same way. And some people can't physically go on with life the same way. When we are at our weakest points, though we may or may not be physically incapable of living, may see death a little closer. And since religion more so tends to lead to an afterlife, sometimes people need to feel assured, and or, clean themselves up just incase something ever happens. As humans and as a people, we tend to ignore death, not because we don't know its there, but thinking overly about it can lead into serious depression. But at the same time, sometimes we do need that realization. That we're not going to be here forever. So as a last minute resort, tend to put their faith in God.

So your asking me, is the statement true, "Only when you know pain, will you know God."
There are several ways to go about looking at this.
In some ways, yes, yes it is true.
Similarly, its basically the same thing as saying, you never know true happiness until you go through utter remorse.
Because you appreciate something more when at first you didn't have.
Like, if there's only a little bit left of your favorite drink and you pour the remains in an already filled cup, it's not gonna matter to you as much as when you pour the remains in an empty cup. It's the same amount, but you care about those remains a lot more.

Another example would be, a person who generally lived a happy life who believes in God may just believe in them because they think their real because they were taught all their life that they were real.
But a person who has gone through the mud, been at a point where they hated "God" and then decided later that they were real, will definitely feel a stronger perception of them then the blissfully ignorant first example.

[Amante]

God uses the weak.

He used Moses after Moses killed a dude in Egypt.

That says alot.

Killing someone makes you weak?

[Cookieluv246]

God uses the weak.

He used Moses after Moses killed a dude in Egypt.

That says alot.

Killing someone makes you weak?

Maybe in the stomach.
I know I'd be close to throwing up if I saw someone murdered by my own hands.
...Or just murdered in general

[MacSimon]

It's somewhat sad how nowdays, religion is not part of a huge culture as the old ones were. Somehow it seems to be just a reason to keep going, when you've lost faith.
Religion=/= Faith.

We all have hard points in our lives - And we don't even know if that guy's got it that hard - and when we get to them, to have faith in something bigger than yourself helps you to keep going, to make something for another person or group - Probably one of the nicest things we 'learnt' with different religions.
Religion shouldn't be that big on those who have hit rock bottom or are afraid to. It should help to take care of the pain, before the pain has a chance to begin with.

[UrbanMysticDee]

That's a tough one to answer, adequately. I feel a simple "yes" wouldn't cut it.

I can say from both personal experience and from the accounts of others that the answer is yes, but it's not that simple. Knowing pain opens one up to God, but it doesn't mean the person knows how to listen. You have to get over yourself and listen, then you will know God. That's what pain, or suffering, does, primarily, is it strips away layers of protection we've built up over, well it can't even be expressed in terms of time. We build up barriers to protect our fragile little egos and feed them daily with thoughts of our own superiority and smug self-satisfaction. Suffering has a delightful way of penetrating those barriers, and it helps us facilitate our transformation, however, we always have choice. Suffering is not an automatic go to God free card. It's an aid, it makes our job easier, but it does not do our job for us.

Knowing is not the same as believing. Knowing is immediate and incorrigible and comes from experience ("the experience of non-experience" I call it). Mere belief does not entail experience or certainty.

The intellect can only take us so far before we make the monumental leap that knowing requires.

But, yes, suffering is the only thing that will put someone on the path to knowing. The greater the suffering, the more personal it is, the greater the likelihood that there will be a breakthrough.

[H0lyhandgrenade]

I think people with such terrible lives would indeed feel more deeply that there is a God. Because they need SOMETHING to cling to, some kind of rhyme or reason for what's going on. 'God has a plan' and 'God's testing you' is a far more comforting thought than 'Shit happens'. And it's nice to think that after all this balls you've been through theyre might actually be an AWARD at the end of it for being a good little christian and pushing through it. Otherwise what else is there.

[MermaidUnderSea]

I really don't get this (maybe because I'm atheist) but wouldn't all this bad shit happening to you make you turn on God instead of crawling towards him for help? I would seriously be outraged since God is suppose to be forgiveful (that's not even a word) to all living beings.

It's somewhat sad how nowdays, religion is not part of a huge culture as the old ones were.

Curse you, Science! You have ruined everything! EVERYTHING!

I am not religious but I feel many misinterpret the Bible and its message.

Actually, that is not true. There is no one way to interpret the Bible, so having different views on it's message is normal.

[blankd]

I am not religious but I feel many misinterpret the Bible and its message.

Actually, that is not true. There is no one way to interpret the Bible, so having different views on it's message is normal.

(I don't recall saying that there was one specific way of interpreting the Bible, I presented my view, but he was asking for it anyway, so I felt it was appropriate.)
Given the notorious issue of there being several different versions/translations of the same book there is much debate of course that can be said (there is no one way to interpret the Bible)- but I think you can agree that when many often hide behind the book to justify what negative things they do to other people ranging from pressing their views with pamphlets to creating extremist groups something has gone wrong.

Mind of course, that all major religions are guilty of this, however for the sake of discussion kyupol's question refers to beliefs that reference the Bible as well as a personal encounter with one who was using the Bible to essentially not be very positive (or in the very least, aggressively insisting that his own belief is the right one).

[iRATEcOSTUMER]

Want to know what the bible says about this?
Than read it
If you read like 3 books you can figure out that what that guy said is a huge load
Any 3 random books

[Izkata]

I really don't get this (maybe because I'm atheist) but wouldn't all this bad shit happening to you make you turn on God instead of crawling towards him for help?

I think people with such terrible lives would indeed feel more deeply that there is a God. Because they need SOMETHING to cling to, some kind of rhyme or reason for what's going on. 'God has a plan' and 'God's testing you' is a far more comforting thought than 'Shit happens'.

These are pretty much the reason I'm saying "no" to your question.

If bad things happening in your life is how you learned of god, and you still turn to your god, it's most like being in an abusive relationship.