Scripting and thumbnailing?

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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby Mr. Henry » February 18th, 2012, 11:43 am

Asj wrote:Paliana (and Mr. Henry),
That's neat. ^_^ I've tried doing something like that in the past, but I couldn't figure out where to go from a short chapter summary (because a lines like, "Ed wakes up" doesn't magically turn into pages for me). ^_^"

Mr. Henry,
Asking what the characters would do is a good idea... I've been realizing that recently. ^_^" Without doing that, I think I end up with dialogue that sounds not quite right, but if I try to think of how them themselves would react (or even, how I would in that situation), more happens.


Since you're summarizing the whole scene into one sentence it would look more like:
"Ed wakes up and gets ready to meet with Prof. Such n' such about [Important plot point]" Step two takes that sentence, with the character in mind and forms a few pages surrounding that event.
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby Apollo_Child » February 19th, 2012, 3:00 am

My process is usually writing out a chapter summary in a script form which is about 5-6 sentences, based on the length of the chapter. Then, I do thumbnail sketches, which are about a fourth of the actual drawing size by hand. I do it in a notebook usually, and I leave a wide margin on one side to make notes or extra dialogue. I try to thumbnail the entire chapter at a time, because then I can easily look at the chapter and cut out things to make it more concise. Thumbnails are a rough draft, and they should always be longer than the final, I think. When doing thumbnails, I make notes about color, lighting, flow, and any other thing that comes to mind. Though it's all pretty much scribbles. But once it gets to the final it's all edited down. He's a sample of the process:

Script:
Spoiler! :
1: BK: The Bronze Rails; Ecabell takes Bailey and Kite to Umbra Beach to railskate. The Twins prove their skill by beating an ex-professional, LaMicheal, in a short race. Meanwhile, Ecabell applies for a government job, where she gets interviewed by Derezz and Kalona Keen. Lamicheal tells them to pursue their dreams of becoming professional railskaters and be like Setsuna Solaire. The Umbra rig explodes, and Lamicheal and the twins escape as the rail arena collapse. Ecabell and Kalona stay to help as the Twins are taken to the office where, for amusement, Derezz tests their DNA, finding that they possess the Nexus Key, and are the children of Setsuna Solaire. Slum streets, Umbra Beach, Government office. (11 years from Nexus).


Thumbnails:
Spoiler! :
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby UrbanMysticDee » February 19th, 2012, 4:05 am

The Making of The L

First I read a lot of books and get ideas about stuff like guns to put in the story.

Then I watch a lot of movies for scenes that are really cool to redo.

There are jokes that need to go in if the narrators are involved, because nothing they say is serious (if you've noticed by now).

Somewhere along the line I actually begin to write stuff. I'll try to do a script for a whole chapter if I can, but chapters are all indeterminate length and scenes are written whenever the hell I think of them, so page notation is something like X1, X2 (the Lilith scene, at the end of Chapter Twelve), 2.1, 2.2, 7x, etc. I figure out where scenes go later. A lot of later scenes have much better scripts, because stuff actually happens, but since I have yet to upload or even finish most of those pages, I'm stuck showing you the boring scene with the narrators witty banter, pages 64 and 65.

The dialogue is almost always written first, because dialogue is the stuff that has to go in no matter what. I must make room for it, even if I have to fudge it. I think about what all the characters say and do all the voices out loud so I'm sure it resembles natural speech (mostly while walking around). Then I make drawerings of the page layout as so:

Spoiler! :
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^That hotdog joke is from King of the Hill. It's funny because it's not a reference to anything in the story itself, appears out of nowhere, and then vanishes without ever being mentioned again, and sounds really sexual when it's not.

MOST of this will never see the light of day. Tons will be cut out to make it all fit. Some will be made into "Supplemental" pages (although most supplemental pages are written specifically AS supplemental pages and the name is just a marketing gimmick).

Then I get out a ruler and paper and try to recreate what I thought of as best it can fit actual reality. Each panel takes about an hour to draw whether it's super detailed or just something stupid and simple, and since there's usually 6 or 7 panels per page that means it takes about 9 to 10 hours to draw each page by hand because half the time I mess up and have to redraw it on a separate page and edit it in later on the computer. At least half of what you see is done on the computer. A single panel can have five or more separate hand drawn elements and just as many computer drawn elements all composited together. Directions like what needs to be changed, added, removed, backgrounds, and text are written in, so each raw page (labled as "64r" and "65r" in this case) is kind of like a storyboard really, and the most detailed and complicated storyboard I've ever done. It's also where I add the wobbly borders and mirror written hidden messages.

Action, poses, props, settings, backgrounds, all that stuff is almost always fit AROUND the dialogue. Unless it's vital that someone gets gutted or brained or sexed, I figure all that stuff out later. It's kind of the reverse of how the original Spider Man comics were made, where the pages were all drawn and when they were finished the dialogue was monkey wrenched to fit the action (which is why a lot of the time people are doing stuff really cool and saying stuff really stupid, because text bubbles were drawn before anyone knew what text would go in them, so you end up with people saying very unnatural things in weird situations).

Spoiler! :
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I try to make the text area larger than it needs to be because I don't do hand lettering except with a few words that need to look just right (like when Rane says "Don't" on page 64), and the page numbers themselves. When I actually type out the final dialogue a good deal will be changed so measuring out the text boxes means nothing and everything is fit as best as I can.

Since this is just about scripting and thumbnailing I won't go into any more detail about how all the above is turned into this:

Spoiler! :
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on,
you'll see devils tearing your life away.
If you've made your peace,
then the devils are really angels freeing you from the earth.
~ Meister Eckhart ~
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby adrilahan » February 19th, 2012, 2:06 pm

I started off with a synopsis style outline, that is, I tell the entire story in a couple of sentences. With that done, I write down my key scenes in summary. These are the scenes that all the other stuff flows to and from. In animation terms, these are keyframes, without these, you've got nothing.

For example, Romeo and Juliet:
Summary
(Act 1) Two households in Verona are at feud. (Act 2) A son of one household and a daughter of the other love each other despite this feud. (Act 3) They kill themselves, and this ends the feud.

Act 1
We are introduced to Verona, the Montagues, the Capulets, and their feud. We are introduced to Romeo. We are introduced to Juliet. The Capulets hold a party, Romeo attends, speaks with Juliet.

A) Verona Overview/Verona Street
Montagues and Capulets and citizens of Verona present. A scuffle happens between lesser Capulets and Montagues. Romeo hears of the Capulet's party.
  • Tybalt and Benvolio fight
  • Romeo gets the invitation to the Capulet party
B) Capulet's House
Lady Capulet is looking for her daughter to discuss Juliet's marriage prospects.
  • Lady Capulet and Juliet talk
C) Verona Street
Romeo, Mercutio and Benvolio are talking, are on their way to the party.
  • Queen Mab speech
D) Capulet's House
The party is underway. Romeo is either present, or just entering. He flirts with Juliet, and Juliet reciprocates. This makes Tybalt angry. Juliet learns the man she flirted with is a Montague.
  • Romeo and Juliet talk

As you can see, I'm really brutal here, it literally has to be summarized to only the parts that the whole story falls apart without. If it's not exposition, and it doesn't further the plot, it doesn't get a bullet point. My scene summaries usually have as many sentences as there are non-key major scenes (stuff you could skip and still have it make sense, but that adds to the story). If your story doesn't make sense from just this, you have a problem with your plot. I work this way for novels too, it's really good for making sure you don't have hanging questions that don't have answers.

After that, I can get started writing my detailed script and thumb-nailing my pages. Except for the first page, I've been working two pages at a time so that my page flow doesn't run into trouble on facing pages.

I visualize my layout as I write the script (including notes about the shape and size of the panel that came to mind), and sketch it out in my head while I write. I actually envision panel shapes while writing, and change the writing to fit the panel shapes (and panel groups). When I think I've got it, I physically draw the thumbnail, including where I expect my speech bubbles to go. After that, I might adjust the layout and script a bit if it looks clunkier on the page than it did in my head, but as it turns out, my mental image seems to end up working nicely most of the time.

Some pages have been kind of odd, they flow unconventionally, so I've had to draw out bigger hyper-simplified thumbnails (gesture drawings with empty speech bubbles, this will really test your panel layouts for their ability to guide a person around the page) and hand it to someone who doesn't know the story to see if they can follow the page the way I want them to.
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby desideraht » February 19th, 2012, 3:22 pm

I feel pretty unprofessional. I just kind of guestimate and make it all fit somehow. I draw each page out one at a time how it feels right to me. :lol: This might bite me in the ass later.

i just literally sketch out each page from scratch as I go along. I have an idea of what is going to happen on each page but I don't draft out full chapters. And a lot of it is coming out of vague notes. Some of it I just make up as I go along, too. >.>

Here's a couple "sketch" examples with partial inking:

Spoiler! :
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I draw out the light color sketch and then ink over it... I try to make each page work out well as a composition, so that a single page tells a short story. Even though I don't have an outline, it does look like my first chapter will fit well into the amount of pages I've intended for it. xD

Perhaps it is bad that I don't do a whole lot of planning. We'll see how the chapters work out. I do have notes but they're really for reference purposes. I don't have full chapters drafted out.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby Nikkinoodles » February 19th, 2012, 5:32 pm

First I think the whole story up then I'll write down a basic outline. Once that's gone I divide it up into sections and write brief outlines of those. When that's done and I'm happy with everything that's included I go back and do a more detailed outline of each scene.
The next part has started to change now. It used to be that I'd write up an entire chapter's script and then thumbnail. For my redo of Loves Complications though I've started to do rough, and I mean ROUGH thumbnails, basically detailing vague expressions and shots of actions. I'll do a couple of pages of those and then I'll go back and write the script in Word with description in between.
Once I'm happy with that I go through my thumbnails and start to put them into seperate pages. I redraw them in more detail (perspectives, soundeffects, dialogue and clearer expressions. Once I'm happy with those I'll thumbnail out my pages with the new thumbnails and sketch in rough speech bubble locations. The script changes slightly by that point so I read through it all and make sure that the panel order and dialogue layout makes sense.
Once that's all done I start to draw the pages themselves; sketch, ink, colour, post. Because my starting process has changed though I can see those parts changing too.
Eishiya said: wrote:groin attacks build character


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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby ZaraLT » March 8th, 2012, 9:45 pm

I'm going to make an honest confession: I don't actually script before I thumbnail, I do them both at the same time. I've tried separating the two and it just doesn't work for me. I've boarded 85 chapters, all on regular lined paper with the important information or dialogue placed beside each thumbnail. Before I go to this stage though I make sure I have a very good guideline of jot notes telling me what needs to be said/done in a scene. Then when I get to the next stage, I try acting things out as the characters to find their voice and record their movements visually at the same time so I have a really good feel for them as a whole.

This is probably a very unpopular way of doing things, but hey whatever works for someone I always say!
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby Lickspittle » March 11th, 2012, 11:18 pm

ZaraLT wrote:I'm going to make an honest confession: I don't actually script before I thumbnail, I do them both at the same time. I've tried separating the two and it just doesn't work for me. I've boarded 85 chapters, all on regular lined paper with the important information or dialogue placed beside each thumbnail. Before I go to this stage though I make sure I have a very good guideline of jot notes telling me what needs to be said/done in a scene. Then when I get to the next stage, I try acting things out as the characters to find their voice and record their movements visually at the same time so I have a really good feel for them as a whole.

This is probably a very unpopular way of doing things, but hey whatever works for someone I always say!


ZaraLT: I actually think that's a really cool way of doing it! Because you understand that comics are based on picture and word, this makes the most sense to you! Unfortunately for me, I write faster than I sketch, and I feel like writing is less work and I'll be less likely to take unnecessary breaks all the time like I would if I were drawing haha!

For me, I start out with my little pocket book, writing down the ideas I have for the story as a whole. Then I break it down and write a very simple synopsis for the chapters. Here's basically an entire chapter, and a LOT has changed since then:
Spoiler! :
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After that, I get on good ol' Google Docs and write out the full chapters, making tweaks on previous chapters as I write the later ones, to bring a bit of unity to the whole comic. Here's a two page spread in text form:
They’re in mundane clothes. Mom waves at CG. CG- “Thanks for letting your son come with us.” Mom- “I should be thanking you! He’s opened up so much since he joined your club.” “Everyone loves having him! He’s a smart kid.” Mom- “I have a favor to ask.” “Shoot.” “I’m not naive about what’s going to happen this weekend. I know there’s going to be drinking, and girls--” CG-”Ma’am, we will watch out for--” “No, I want to make sure that Fred has fun. He’s too good of a kid. Could you just corrupt him a bit?” CG smiles, Mom- “Not too much! Just make sure he stops worrying about everything and has a little fun!”

And I write it just like that. Not in paragraph form, or prose, or script or anything that'll make it look good to other people, because I'm not showing that to other people, so who cares! I print it out so that I can write more notes on it and draw little vertical lines between sentences to figure out how much text will be in a specific panel. I'll also make notes on whether I want a certain action to take place on a page-turn to prepare myself for building suspense.
Then I draw thumbnails on a dummy book, which is just a bunch of pieces of printer paper stapled together. That way I'll know when page turns are going to happen.
Spoiler! :
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Then I draw and ink the pages onto one sheet of paper because I draw this comic pretty small due to it's lack of detail.
Spoiler! :
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Then of course, color.
Page 36 and Page 37
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby Asj » March 12th, 2012, 8:13 am

This thread's neat. I'm glad I thought of making it. ^_^
by the way, Lickspittle, I like that you draw thumbnails in book form. That seems like a good idea.
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby dunklen » March 12th, 2012, 12:05 pm

Well, For me, i just write the whole chapter but only the importants parts had the dialogue planned out then i go with thumbnailing the pages.
When i´m thumbnailing i also write the dialogues for the characters that are more natural for them but below of the thumbnails. My thumbnails are usually very small and it´s a lot of doodles that only me can understand but i can only do that when i have a very clear idea of what my characters are gonna act, the poses, the dialogues and all that. If i try to force it they´re usually result in a crappy and dull page, so i mostly thumbnail half of the chapter, sometimes even less.

Part of the important scenes and dialogues i´ve planned out are subject to change when i´m thumbnailing because sometimes i got a better idea of how everything will look better, so i guess my script goes for various changes in the thumbnailing stage.
After that, i go to the sketching/inking/toning process. The scripting and thumbnailing process are the most hardest to me, i guess.
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Re: Scripting and thumbnailing?

Postby uglyfun » April 17th, 2012, 8:33 pm

ooh I made a tumblr post on this awhile back! essentially, I have to script and draw at the same time. I think a lot of comic artists are the same way!
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