What's with the short skirts???

[KirbyHead]

The same thing happens in America. We might even be worse.

I don't really believe so. These are GROWN WOMEN that are being drawn like this, not young school girls.

Oh, no, we're just as bad. Open up any American mainstream comic book and you'll see a severe lack of anything approaching pants. Not even skirts, bro. Just leotards and underwear. And that's from young women to grown women.

[Aeridis]

Give me an example then. All young superheroines I've seen wear skirts... and I'm not a dude.

EDIT: I've only seen 1 so far that's showing more skin than she should...

[Seven Rain]

Regardless of which region is worse stereotypes are still just stereotypes. :/

[KirbyHead]

Give me an example then. All young superheroines I've seen wear skirts... and I'm not a dude.

EDIT: I've only seen 1 so far that's showing more skin than she should...

What. Do you read comics regularly? If so, you'd know that sexualizing women is one of the big problems some female readers have against them. Need I remind you of the Wonder Woman pants debacle? Anyway, here are some other examples:


What is this? A skirt or a belt?


This has been Starfire's outfit since Teen Titans, by the way.


Same with Raven. I swear, all comic book women must go Brazilian. If you know what I mean.


Cassie Lang is fourteen. Which is the perfect age for sexy panty shots, apparently.


Atom Eve. I always thought her outfit was kind of cute, anyway. She wore this throughout high school.

Moving on to older superheroines.

Powergirl (and Black Canary). Need I say more?


Huntress. Do those even count as hotpants?


Ms. Marvel. Her leotard doesn't even go to her hips. How she avoids a serious wedgie, I'll never know.

Spoiler! :

Despite the barely-there underwear nature of her outfit, I've always kind of liked it. (And I kind of want this statue. And this Black Canary one. But that's neither here nor there.)

The list could go on and on. But all in all, I think every country's got it bad for short skirts/revealing tops/sexy women. It kind of glosses over me these days because I've seen it so much.

Now what we really need? More sexy, revealing clothes for men. Yeahhhhhh.

[Aeridis]

I said "GIRL" not "WOMAN".

Japan sexualize women just as much as America does, but what I'm saying here is that Japan seem to sexualize younger females (GIRLS, not WOMAN) more than America does. You get my drift now?

[Molly-sama]

I said "GIRL" not "WOMAN".

Japan sexualize women just as much as America does, but what I'm saying here is that Japan seem to sexualize younger females (GIRLS, not WOMAN) more than America does. You get my drift now?

She did post girls. She posted teenagers (even listed one as being 14, which, for the record, is the same age as some Japanese protagonists in short skirts like Sailor Moon). Those aren't women. Starfire dressed that way as a teenager, as did Raven. Not to mention their newer designs for the TV version...they weren't much better. A leotard and short skirt. Note that not drawing detail does not necessarily mean they aren't showing the skin...

And Supergirl is often shown as a teenager (I don't know if she's a teenager here, but she practically wears the same outfit in the JL and JLU TV series where she was a teenager.

Also both examples were listed in KirbyHead's post, too.

If you mean young girls, as in children, then well...yeah, Americans don't do so in published works because...well, that gets disturbing to most people, pretty damn close to illegal, and most publishers are smart enough to not even get remotely close to making people uncomfortable like that. A brief internet search can turn up some pretty disturbing results of works only available online. Like that PPG fancomic. Though some get published...watch an episode of Atop the Fourth Wall with an episode about a comic featuring a teenage girl, and Linkara will point it out. As for Japan, I don't know what you mean outside of shota and the like.

[blankd]

EDIT: Beaten by Molly 8V

I said "GIRL" not "WOMAN".

Japan sexualize women just as much as America does, but what I'm saying here is that Japan seem to sexualize younger females (GIRLS, not WOMAN) more than America does. You get my drift now?

Spoiler! :

TEEN TITANS111!

All other female superheroes who are shown in their "girl years" gave the exact same outfit, occasionally with a reduction in cleavage or a more conservative top portion, however the bottom portion for the most part remains unchanged.

[Aeridis]

What I consider a girl is 14 yrs and under, women is 15+ yrs.

[blankd]

What I consider a girl is 14 yrs and under, women is 15+ yrs.

Are you seriously hairsplitting over one year? :\

[reverendjack]

it might just be because I'm from the US, or because i'm really old, but i don't consider 15-year old girls to be women. even a lot of 18 and 19-year olds look like kids to me, but at least you don't feel *too* dirty seeing them in 3" skirts.
it's really all about how sex sells, and pushing the line of what sexy is until we start seeing labia on the covers of comic books that aren't in the dark, closed-off corner of the shop.

Sex appeal + Artists who are guys/trying to appeal to guys = Short Skirts + A lot of other potential disturbing results

too fucking true. except for sailor moon. that's not for dudes, is it? meh.

[KirbyHead]

Both blankd and Molly called it: the first five girls I posted have worn the same outfits pictured in their teens. Around the age of fifteen, in fact.

What I consider a girl is 14 yrs and under, women is 15+ yrs.

Welp, okay, if we're going to talk about girls being sexualized in the US, may I introduce you to Jenna Rose? (She's twelve, by the way.) And I'm sure you've heard of Miley Cyrus. (She was about seveteen when that video was made--still very much a 'girl' to me.) And the various "Countdown Until They're Legal!" created for her, the Olsen twins, and many other major stars. iCarly's large, older-male fanbase? And child beauty pageants. Not to mention how we glamorize teenage sex in pretty much every show on the CW and like stations. Yes, those people aren't actually young men and women, but they're written to be.

Yeah, I know: not comics. But media nonetheless. In comparison to Japan, we might not have such a thriving loli market, as that skirts close to illegality here-- obscenity laws are fairly vague. But even if we don't have as big a distribution of it, we certainly get this "younger and sexier" message shoveled into many forms of entertainment.

I find your definition of 'girl' strange, since I still consider myself one, and I'm in my early twenties. Most of the girls I know would describe themselves as just that as well, since there's thought to be a certain level of maturity that coexists with the label 'woman'-- a level that many of us, and certainly fifteen year-olds, have not yet reached. Why do you think fifteen year-olds to be women all of a sudden? I'm sure that we can all agree that having hit puberty does not guarantee that you're actually mature. And that fifteen is not some magical line where it's suddenly a great idea to have panty-shots and assless costumes galore. As with blankd said, there's not really a need to split hairs between those teenage years.

[reverendjack]

oh, kirby - you said everything i wanted to say but haven't had nearly enough coffee yet to say it <3

also, i think we should change the title of this thread to, "What's up with US middle schools putting their name on the asses of girls' sweatpants???"

[Aeridis]

Welp, okay, if we're going to talk about girls being sexualized in the US, may I introduce you to Jenna Rose? (She's twelve, by the way.) And I'm sure you've heard of Miley Cyrus. (She was about seveteen when that video was made--still very much a 'girl' to me.) And the various "Countdown Until They're Legal!" created for her, the Olsen twins, and many other major stars. iCarly's large, older-male fanbase? And child beauty pageants. Not to mention how we glamorize teenage sex in pretty much every show on the CW and like stations. Yes, those people aren't actually young men and women, but they're written to be.

I know about these shows, but really all you're saying is that a lot of perverts watch them. The reasons that the shows you listed are getting a lot of older male audiences are not all on the producers (and the child beauty pageants are because of the parents.) What I'm trying to say that in Japan, most of these are intentional and mainstream, and in America it's not entirely (and if it was, it would normally be put down by law).

I find your definition of 'girl' strange

It's a culture thing.

[blankd]

I know about these shows, but really all you're saying is that a lot of perverts watch them. The reasons that the shows you listed are getting a lot of older male audiences are not all on the producers (and the child beauty pageants are because of the parents.) What I'm trying to say that in Japan, most of these are intentional and mainstream, and in America it's not entirely (and if it was, it would normally be put down by law).

Yes, having young female pop singers wear certain clothing and glamming them up is NOT AT ALL the adult's in charge of the production's fault. Having whole businesses aimed at making young girls want to and "succeed" in emulating adult females is sure "put down by the law" here. (And in case it wasn't clear, this is all sarcasm.)

I have an assignment for you Aeridis, go look up the most recent season of broadcast anime/manga and show us some dastardly short skirts. Shows that are R/Broadcast PG-13 (censored R) are disqualified.

It's a culture thing.

You can keep to that if you wish, but since the difference between a 14 and 15-year old are hardly cosmetically apparent in stylized mediums, it's a bit of a weak arguement. (Hell in most mediums across th world, stylized mediums, teens to young adult characters roughly appear the same.)

Basically you seem to only be adverse to short skirts based on a number that can be arbitrarily changed without changing the appearance of the character in question. If you concern is "this is creepy because she looks underage" or "short skirts seem to used to exploit/objectify females characters" you would have a fine opinion, however you seem to be having a character's author-assigned age dictate what "makes it wrong" rather than what the character looks like or what the skirt in question does.

You also seem to be under the impression that there are less perverts here or more perverts over there.

[Molly-sama]

...I'm 21, and I don't consider any 15 year old to be a woman. A woman is an adult who can take care of herself at least emotionally and is mature enough to carry on in an adult situation. I don't know many-if any-15 year olds that can do that.

If I might ask, what is your culture? I know of only one off the top of my head that considers 15 to be a woman, but even then a family I do know in that culture only considers it as a traditional thing. The girl of that family is still a teenage girl who is provided for... This is not to mock you; it is simply for clarification and my own curiosity. Feel free not to answer. : )

EDIT: beat by blankd. XD Also, what he said.

except for sailor moon. that's not for dudes, is it? meh.

In Japan it was mostly for both boys and girls between 8-16, and the manga version about 12-18. Over here it was viewed as only for girls 6-12, so take from that what you will.

really all you're saying is that a lot of perverts watch them. The reasons that the shows you listed are getting a lot of older male audiences are not all on the producers (and the child beauty pageants are because of the parents.) What I'm trying to say that in Japan, most of these are intentional and mainstream, and in America it's not entirely (and if it was, it would normally be put down by law).

What? When did she say anything about perverts? Correct me if I'm wrong, KirbyHead, as I may well be, but what I got from that is that the US has a tendency to sexualize younger girls, too. It doesn't matter why the show is on officially (a target demographic for instance), and whatever you may think about it, sometimes it is intentional. Such as a thong made for little girls (which exists). Or just watch an episode of one of the Beauty Pageant shows. I watched one episode wherein a little girl wore an outfit for her age group (she was about 3 or 4), and she was marked down for not showing enough skin or wearing a bikini over a one piece later on. I'm not kidding.

Also, if I remember correctly, Starfire in the TV show version of Teen Titans was meant to be about 14 and Raven 16.