Could the recommendation system be a disadvantage?

[Cropcircledesigner]

Before the recommendation-system I had 4 comics up and 25 fans. Now I have 8 comics and 28 fans. This may be because my comic has gotten darker since page 1 and I am not going to bitch about this, but it made me think.

I think that people don't really look at the front page anymore, and that makes me wonder how brand new comics are supposed to get attention. (Because if you have 0 fans, you're below underdog, and if you have 1 fan, the chance of being recommended is probably very small). How is everyone else experiencing this? I kinda feel chances got less equal, but there was always some dependency on the 'people who read ... also read:'... I'm really not sure about this and that's why I'm curious what others think.

Is this even the right forum xD

[Admin]

I see what you're saying. If people find the recommendation engine to be a good way of finding new comics, they may go to the front page less for that purpose, and so new comics will be put at a disadvantage. But if the recommendation engine does a better job of helping people find the comics they like than the front page, then I think it has added value to Smack Jeeves. And I don't think people will stop looking at the front page altogether, because it is still a good source of finding new comics out of the blue.

Even so, I don't think you can just upload a comic to Smack Jeeves and expect it to become wildly popular, even if it is very good. At least initially, you need to do some work promoting your comic, if you want to get more fans. In addition, your comic needs to be "ready" for promotion before you start promoting it. For example, if you have under 30 or so pages, its probably not time to start promoting your comic, because there isn't going to be enough content there to keep most people hooked.

[Senshuu]

Personally I never look at the front page...ever, and I rely on word of mouth, links from other comics, or things like recommendation systems to find comics. It's very rarely by random chance that I find a new comic, though it's nice to know that if I do get bored one day there is a way to find random new good comics that have nothing to do with my interests. <3

[Cropcircledesigner]

I see what you're saying. If people find the recommendation engine to be a good way of finding new comics, they may go to the front page less for that purpose, and so new comics will be put at a disadvantage. But if the recommendation engine does a better job of helping people find the comics they like than the front page, then I think it has added value to Smack Jeeves. And I don't think people will stop looking at the front page altogether, because it is still a good source of finding new comics out of the blue.

Even so, I don't think you can just upload a comic to Smack Jeeves and expect it to become wildly popular, even if it is very good. At least initially, you need to do some work promoting your comic, if you want to get more fans. In addition, your comic needs to be "ready" for promotion before you start promoting it. For example, if you have under 30 or so pages, its probably not time to start promoting your comic, because there isn't going to be enough content there to keep most people hooked.

Promote how? xD
Not many people look at the self-promotion board, and not everyone wants to pay for attention (though I'll probably donate to SJ when I'm not saving my money for London). Now that less people look at the front page (or maybe that's just a trend- iunno) I'm not really sure how someone's supposed to get new readers (fans) if they don't have any/much. I'm not talking about myself in particular... I'm just curious here.

[Pyroman]

I think by way of how new this system is, and it's current trend of popularity, you are underestimating the amount of users not present on the board, and overestimating the advantages of the system itself. In essence the recommendation system offers about 10 comics on rotation regularly. If I come back next month, or in two weeks maybe I will have a largely different selection, but day to day I will receive only the same comics as recommendations. As such, if I am looking for new comics I will still go to the front page, or use the various search filters to find what I am looking for; after all, why be stuck with such a limited selection? Although the recommendation system is in place, and it has been on most accounts a successful addition, it does not replace or neutralise the effectiveness of the front page and the search pages. In fact, I would argue that it encourages users to search for new comics, and reminds users that there are comics out there they have never seen, and that could potentially appeal to them. Ignoring this, I also believe your assumptions are based on how popular the recommendation seems to be on the forums, forgetting that the active user-base of Smackjeeves would be well over 5000, and only a minuscule portion of those people use the forums regularly --some having never even visited once. Although I concur to a degree that the recommendations might stop a user from going to the front page once, after seeing all the system has to offer, and viewing the most appealing of the platter, I believe that users would be forced back to the searches and, inevitably, the front page.

In addition to this, I'd argue that you are also vastly exaggerating the value of the front page in promoting your comic. I can legitimately say that in the last 5 months I have not received a single page-load directly from the homepage. The truth is, most people barely even look at the Smackjeeves Main page, just as much as they generally ignore the News Page of comics. This is because most users know the menus, and navigate only where they need to be. During average activity, when uploading a comic or doing some other specific action, users do not go and search for new comics. As a hub, it's a brilliant system, but that someone may open the main page at the exact second you upload, peruse the banners, and decide to actually go to your site is about as likely as any other form of Smackjeeves promotion --including the Self Promotion board which arguably offers the exact same service.

I understand your position, but I believe you are simply overestimating how important the homepage is to your promotion, and in turn vastly overestimating how much of an impact the recommendation system will have on people viewing unknown comics. People will always look to the search filters, the self promotion boards, forum signatures and yes, even the front page for new comics, whether a recommendation system is there or not.

[Cropcircledesigner]

I think by way of how new this system is, and it's current trend of popularity, you are underestimating the amount of users not present on the board, and overestimating the advantages of the system itself. In essence the recommendation system offers about 10 comics on rotation regularly. If I come back next month, or in two weeks maybe I will have a largely different selection, but day to day I will receive only the same comics as recommendations. As such, if I am looking for new comics I will still go to the front page, or use the various search filters to find what I am looking for; after all, why be stuck with such a limited selection? Although the recommendation system is in place, and it has been on most accounts a successful addition, it does not replace or neutralise the effectiveness of the front page and the search pages. In fact, I would argue that it encourages users to search for new comics, and reminds users that there are comics out there they have never seen, and that could potentially appeal to them. Ignoring this, I also believe your assumptions are based on how popular the recommendation seems to be on the forums, forgetting that the active user-base of Smackjeeves would be well over 5000, and only a minuscule portion of those people use the forums regularly --some having never even visited once. Although I concur to a degree that the recommendations might stop a user from going to the front page once, after seeing all the system has to offer, and viewing the most appealing of the platter, I believe that users would be forced back to the searches and, inevitably, the front page.

In addition to this, I'd argue that you are also vastly exaggerating the value of the front page in promoting your comic. I can legitimately say that in the last 5 months I have not received a single page-load directly from the homepage. The truth is, most people barely even look at the Smackjeeves Main page, just as much as they generally ignore the News Page of comics. This is because most users know the menus, and navigate only where they need to be. During average activity, when uploading a comic or doing some other specific action, users do not go and search for new comics. As a hub, it's a brilliant system, but that someone may open the main page at the exact second you upload, peruse the banners, and decide to actually go to your site is about as likely as any other form of Smackjeeves promotion --including the Self Promotion board which arguably offers the exact same service.

I understand your position, but I believe you are simply overestimating how important the homepage is to your promotion, and in turn vastly overestimating how much of an impact the recommendation system will have on people viewing unknown comics. People will always look to the search filters, the self promotion boards, forum signatures and yes, even the front page for new comics, whether a recommendation system is there or not.

(EDITED)

I based my first post on my own experience. I got like 90% of my favs on my comics right after I updated and it's only common sense to conclude that the front page was important in the promotion of the things. It does however matter WHEN you update (3 AM English time works much better than 5 PM- I tested that stuff xD).
I am not underestimating the amount of users on the forums: I think the number is very small, and that kind of makes me wonder how you're supposed to get the initial attention for your comic, since people that aren't looking at the forums, aren't looking at the self-promotion either. My assumptions were not based on what people replied to the news post about the recommendation system.

[Pyroman]

Haha, as always assumptions are a bad way to form an argument, but either way I think my main point still stands. Although for you the front page may indeed be your main source of fans, the recommendation system in my opinion will have no effect on how many people look at it in the long run.

[Admin]

Promote how? xD
Not many people look at the self-promotion board, and not everyone wants to pay for attention (though I'll probably donate to SJ when I'm not saving my money for London). Now that less people look at the front page (or maybe that's just a trend- iunno) I'm not really sure how someone's supposed to get new readers (fans) if they don't have any/much. I'm not talking about myself in particular... I'm just curious here.

Tell your friends/family, promote yourself in any communities you participate in, build affiliations with webcomics you like to read, etc. Paid advertising is always an option, but you can usually advertise yourself for free if you have built a presence in a particular community through contributing and being involved.

[Pedes]

I think that the recommendation system is an advantage rather than disadvantage. To be honest from the front page I clicked many times and I think I might have faved only 1 comic found that way (and it's inactive too *sigh*); most I found on SJ were from other people favorites or comments under the comics, top list or featured comic.
The recommendation system the way it is is much better, as it catches eye and even if you don't look for a new title at the moment something may catch your eye and it's already a bit filtered so you're more prone to find something that catches your interest.

[Imi]

Honestly, I think you have a better chance of getting 'promotion' through the recommendation system than any other suggestions. I always look at the front page everytime I come onto SJ, and there have been a number of comics I've faved from seeing the banners pop-up. You've just got to work everything to your advantage. Have an interesting banner, favourite other people's comics, comment ON those comics to get your username seen. All of these things will draw people in.

I quite like the recommended comics feature, especially now it's been fixed so it stops suggesting I should read yaoi when I only had one yaoi comic in my favourites. It certainly hasn't put anyone OUT of a chance of being noticed, seeing as it hasn't really replaced something, just added to it.

EDIT: Also, with regards to a much slower fan increase; Comics tend to get a lot of their bulk of early fans in the early days of a comic, where people base it on POTENTIAL rather than what has already been seen. I have a comic that, in the first four or five pages (as in, before the plot has really started rolling), gained almost 100 fans, and now I've updated again has gained one in three days. It depends on where people start to see that the story/art whatever isn't what they expected. You shouldn't be discouraged or think that something strange is going on. It happens to almost every comic and is something you just have to accept.